Log-uri - Interpretarea lor: probleme turbina, debitmetru, EGR?

[marius.stanescu]

Salutare.Am facut si eu un log ca mi se pare ca ar avea pierderi de putere uneori pe la 2200 pana la 2500 ture.sa fie de la debitmetru cumva?

log.xls

[Rune]

buna marius,

 

dupa cum vezi  a fost deja descarcat de 23 de ori dar nimeni nu  vrea sa isi spuna parerea inca ....asa ca m-am gandit  hai sa sparg gheata....poate se mai incumeta si altii.

 

Turbo respectiv actuator -geometrie ..pare ok la tine vedem ciclul actuatorului care  se misca intre 19%   si ajunge pana la 82%  deci geomatria nu pare a fi intepenita si actuatorul isi face treaba pentru anii care ii are.

Presiunea masurata are niste discrepante dar daca te uiti atent la valoarea MAF masurata vei vedea ca discrepantele de presiune turbo se sincronizeaza cu maf ul masurat deci e clar ca valva EGR ni isi face treaba cum trebuie..deci valva nu inchide optimat , avand in vedece ca la WOT trebbuie sa fie obligatoriu inchisa.

 

EGR ul--cam greu de diagnosticat aici, ar fi interesant un Basic setings 003, dar totusi se vede ceva in a doua jumatate a logului acolo unde nu mai accelerezi primele 10 valori sunt ci EGR ul inchis ( 4.8%) si apoi deschide,  la inchis are o valoare de  aprox 500  si e ok  dar la deschis  valoarea scade pana la 333.2  mie mi se pare cam mica.

 

MAF  sau ptr tine suspectul Nr 1,   un MAF sanatos  la WOT  arata o valoare mai mare de 900mg/str, mai mult ca aceasta valoare trebuie sa o pastreza si dupa 3000 rpm   ceea ce la tine nu se prea verifica.

 

In concluzie banuiala ta nu este departe, dar nu poti zice da este MAF ul atat timp cat nu ai certitudinea ca EGR ul este perfect.

 

Deci daca vrei sa stii 100% ca MAF ul e batran ai 2 solutii :

 

1.Suspenzi EGR , cu o tablita, si refaci logul apoi il compari cu logul deja facut.

2. curati EGR ul bine, (iti pot da explicatii la ce trebuie sa fii atent) si la fel refaci logul.

3.schimbi MAF ul si EGR , pui noi si te bucuri de o masina ce merge bine.

 

Eu personal asi merge pe varianta 1  adica, nu schimba nimic pana nu faci o diagnoza corecta, si o comparatie intre 2 loguri spune, ptr mine, mai mult decat aproximativa a unui garajist......stii tu.

 

In alta ordine de idei problema specifica motorului 1.9 TDI PD discutata aici pe forum de xxx ori

 

Succes.

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de Rune

[marius.stanescu]

Merci pt interpretare.legat de egr ultima oara cand a umblat mecanicul prin zona lui si a desfacut furtunul de la ic era curat nu avea depuneri (doar putin ulei pe pereti).in rest nu are scurgeri pe langa el.tablita unde sa ii pun ca ma uit la el ca la avioane.merci

[Rune]

cel mai important lucru la EGR este starea axei dintre valva EGR si membrana vacuum, ea trebuie sa se miste foarte usor in asa fel sa inchida si sa deschida Valva EGR dupa necesiatate, o inchidere intarziata are o influenta negativa asupra presiunii turbo.

 

Tablita se pune pe tubul dintre turbo si EGR , deci se slabesc suruburile la una din imbinari, sunt vreo 4 ..cred deci alegi cea cu cel mai bun acces, deci slabesti suruburile introduci tablita pe langa garnitura dupa care strangi suruburile, in asa fel sa obturezi acesta conducta dintre Turbo si EGR .

 

DAca cauti printre postarile de la EGR vei gasi o poza postata de Excalade cum arata tablita.

 

Daca EGR ul este bun atunci logul inainte de suspendare v-a fi identic cu logul de dupa suspendare semnificand EGR perfect, si  poti da vina pe MAF cu toata increderea.

 

DAca logul  dupa suspendare este mai bun decat logul  inainte , atunci ai dovada clara ca EGR ul nu-si face treaba corect.

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de Rune

[marius.stanescu]

Am inteles ca ar mai fi o varianta sa scot mufa de la maf si sa vad daca trage mai bine?merci

[lowlife]

Va roaga Darin sa-i spuneti o parere despre logurile astea: 

[Rune]

Prin suspendarea EGR ul se simuleaza Un EGR cu Valva EGR inchisa!!

 

Deci fie comanda EGR electrica ori pneumatica , astfel daca scoti  mufa electrica ori daca scoti furtunul de vacuum nu ai nici cea mai mica garantie ca valva EGR este inchisa perfect ori a ramas blocata.

 

De aceea oprturarea tubului ce vine de la turbo la EGR iti da garantia 100% ca turbo nu pierde un gram de presiune.

 

UN exemplu ca sa intelegi:

 

Daca tu ai valva EGR blocata pe deschis, fie ca e arcul rupt in actuatorul EGR fie ca e axa gripata, e daca scoti furtunul de la EGR  si apoi faci o tura  motorul va merge identic ca atunci cand pui furtunul!!

 

Deoarece   vacuumul deschide valva EGR si arcul o inchide.

 

Deci testul cu furtunul scos nu este un test relevant!!!

[Rune]

@Darin

 

daca te uiti la poza cu grupul 003  si citesti ce scrie mai jos trebuie sa intelegi care e problema ta, cu exceptia sa nu ai EGR suspendat!!

 

Daca ai posibilitatea de VCDS, de a citi canalele de masurare ( canalul 003), iti pot da seama in functie de cantitatea de aer absorbita de motor si masurata de debimetru, daca EGR este deschis ori inchis.

1. EGR ventil inchis = masa de aer absorbita ( masurata) mai mare decat valoarea specificata (aproximativ dubla)

2. EGR mereu deschis( blocat) = masa de aer absorbita ( masurata) mai mica decat masa de aer specificata , in general se remarca printr-un relanti neregulat ori chiar oprirea motorului

 

 

Apoi o alta chestie care se vede in loc este ciclul N75  care de la inceputul logului pana la sfarsitul logului  sta prin jurul  valoarii 50%  ceea ce arata ca e o problema la geometria variabila, actuator, N75

 

Ce secretar dragut are Darin.....

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de Rune

[darin]

        treapta 4...bmp         va salut,uitati va si la mine ,nu trage cum trebuie ,consum mare.

treapta 3.bmp

[F l o r i n]

pe la vacuum-uri, te-ai uitat..N75.....

[Rune]

@Darin ,

 

dar inainte de a posta ai citit cumva postarea #5596  si raspunsul in postarea #5598 ??

[darin]

Turbina cu tot cu actuator sunt luate noi de la Ciprian , N 75 cum îl pot proba ? Egr nu e anulat ...., lowlife m a ajutat cu logurile şi îl rugasem să le posteze că eu nu reuşeam ,apoi nu am văzut şi le am postat şi eu , să înţeleg că acestea ar putea contribui la simptomele descrise de mine mai sus ?

[Rune]

@Darin,

 

daca logurile postate de tine sunt identice su logurile postate de prietenul tau atunci raspunsul #5598 este ptr tine de aceea este adresat @Darin.

 

Vezi pe langa postare este foarte important anumite detalii , presum ce ai facut la masina in ultimul timp, cum se comporta actual, etc.

 

Dupa cate spui ai fost la Ciprian si ai schimbat turbo si actuatorul, si sunt sigur , din cate am mai auzit , ca el nu face lucru de mantuaila!!!!, dar tine cont ca la el ai fost sa schimbi turbo si nimic mai mult.

 

Daca intre timp ai mers cateva luni si in acest timp ai avut EGR ul blocat pe deschis nu este mare lucru sa ai geometria ceva imbacsita cu funingine.....

 

Verificarea EGR  si a geometriei  nu costa bani trebuie doar sa te murdaresti putin pe maini.. informatii gasesti din belsug.

 

Si daca stau si ma gandesc bine in ultimele 3 saptamani numai desprea EGR si MAF am discutat pe aici asa ca incercati si mai cititi si postari mai vechi, deoarece se gasesc o groaza de informatii  care pot ajuta sa va rezolvati problema fara a cere ajutorul cuiva ...si asta cred ca da mai multa satisfactie.

 

 

Deci daca  EGR ul nu este anulat atunci este blocat deschis, sau sta deschis unde nu trebuie.

N75 se poate testa cu un Basic setings 003.

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de Rune

[darin]

 scuze!  am postat in graba prin oras de pe un calculator ...si nu am vazut ca postase lowlife deja,, turbina am desfacut o pe cea veche sa o curat asa ca stiu nu e problema,la fel si cu egr , dar legat de turbina daca ar fi imbacsita nu trebuia sa ia limp ? pt ca am mers in ultimul timp cateva mii de km numai pe A2 cu viteze la care trebuia sa intre in limp mode,,,,/,daca anulez egr e mai ok? si acum in alta ordine de idei felicitari pt bagajul de informatii pe care il ai si il imparti cu altii.

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de darin

[Rune]

NU trebuie sa te scuzi imi este clar ca viata in Ro e o fuga continua.

 

Dar turbina a fost desfacuta de tine ori de Cipos?  dupa cum arata la tine ciclul N75 ceva nu e sanatos dupa cat se misca, acum daca ma intrebi de la ce vine e dificil sa spun asa la distanta , deci trebuie controlat  tot  ce tine de comanda geometriei inclusiv geometria , fara a demonta turbo cred ca e clar! Aici un BAsic seting 003  ar putea ajuta.

 

NU trebuie legat  geometria imbacsita/blocata cu Limp mod ul numai decat, Limp modul poate apare si din alte cauze , precum un arc  in actuator rupt, precum o tija reglata prea scurt  care vara merge perfect dar cand se raceste timpul membrana actuatorului devine mai rigida si floschc la prima accelerare mai brusca iei Limp Mode dupa ce o vara a mers impecabil.

 

Prin anularea EGR excluzi orice pierdere de presiune cauzata de un EGR defectuos, dar de retinut ca este posibil ca motorul pe timp de iarna sa ajunga mai greu la temperatura de lucru daca pe tubul dintre turbo si EGR este prevazut cu racitor de gaze.

 

Tot prin anularea cu tablita a EGR ul nu vei mai avea recircularea gazelor de esapament ceea ce prelungeste viata turb/geometriei, adica depunerile de funingine se reduc.

 

Multumesc  dar nu am descoperit eu aceste detalii ci l-am citit/invatat si eu de la altii  asa ca de ce sa nu impart cu altii??

 

Suspenda EGR si fa un nou log  si compara-l cu acesta postat astazi, asa poti avea certitudinea ca EGR ul este batran si nu isi mai face treaba si merita suspendat daca nu vrei sa il inlocuiesti.

[darin]

am uitat sa specific,turbina dinaintea acesteia am desfacut o pana sa o schimb,cea de acum e luata noua de la Cipos ,montata si atat,asa este ,am citit tot postat  de tine despre incalzirea mai greu a motorului cu EGR anulat dar cred ca pana la schimb asta voi face ,legat de N 75 cel mai simplu ar fi cu unul de imprumut dar de unde!?...,oricum da ceva ulei pe gaurele

[jangabriel.drind]

ma puteti ajuta cu interpretarea aestui log la turbina?

este ok?

dupa cateva log a intrat in limp mode.

am oprit masina si am repornito

mia afisat eroarea 16618 - Boost Pressure Regulation 

            P0234 - 006 - Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition) - Intermittent - MIL ON 

 

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,12.80,804,1388.8,456.0,-2.0,12.67,451.4,1016.8,1053.8,0.0,12.74,802,1053.8,1053.4,85.0 ,13.00,803,1388.8,455.8,-2.0,12.86,452.6,1016.8,1053.4,0.0,12.92,805,1053.8,1053.4,85.0 ,13.19,795,1388.8,449.6,-2.0,13.06,460.0,1016.8,1053.8,0.0,13.13,794,1054.0,1054.0,85.0 ,13.38,799,1388.8,438.9,-2.0,13.25,450.5,1016.8,1054.0,0.0,13.31,797,1054.0,1054.0,85.0 ,13.58,802,1388.8,443.6,-2.0,13.44,446.5,1016.8,1053.8,0.0,13.52,806,1053.8,1053.4,85.0 ,13.77,799,1388.8,449.4,-2.0,13.64,449.4,1016.8,1053.8,0.0,13.71,799,1053.8,1053.8,85.0 ,13.96,795,1388.8,442.7,-2.0,13.83,453.7,1016.8,1054.0,0.0,13.89,798,1053.8,1053.8,85.0 ,14.16,797,1388.8,451.4,-2.0,14.04,444.4,1016.8,1053.8,0.0,14.10,797,1053.8,1053.8,85.0 Wednesday,04,December,2013,15:29:15:55062,VCDS Version: Release 11.11.4,Data version: 20120807 03G 906 018 CK,,R4 2.0l PPD1.5 G    9629,   ,Group A:,'003,,,,Group B:,'010,,,,Group C:,'011 ,,Engine Speed,Exhaust Gas,Exhaust Gas,Exhaust Gas,,Mass Air Flow,Atmospheric,Boost Pressure,Accel. Pedal Pos.,,Engine Speed,Boost Pressure,Boost Pressure,Charge Pressure ,TIME,(G28),Recirculat. (spec.),Recirculat. (actual),Recirc. Duty Cycle,TIME,(actual),Pressure,(actual),Sensor 1 (G79),TIME,(G28),(specified),(actual),Control Duty Cycle Marker,STAMP, /min, mg/str, mg/str, %,STAMP, mg/str, mbar, mbar, %,STAMP, /min, mbar, mbar, % ,0.12,4178,806.7,806.7,-2.0,0.20,812.5,1016.8,1666.0,57.0,0.05,4174,1706.1,1667.1,20.1 ,0.32,4200,802.9,802.9,-2.0,0.38,798.3,1016.8,1660.8,57.0,0.26,4193,1705.6,1665.2,20.2 ,0.51,4226,788.9,788.9,-2.0,0.57,786.5,1016.8,1653.9,56.6,0.44,4219,1700.0,1658.9,19.9 ,0.72,4256,795.0,795.0,-2.0,0.78,788.5,1016.8,1645.9,57.0,0.63,4242,1704.5,1650.2,20.8 ,0.91,4266,788.0,788.0,-2.0,0.98,787.1,1016.8,1647.7,56.6,0.85,4262,1703.4,1645.6,20.6 ,1.10,4270,783.3,783.3,-2.0,1.16,783.9,1016.8,1648.1,56.6,1.04,4268,1702.8,1647.4,20.7 ,1.30,4288,789.1,789.1,-2.0,1.37,781.4,1016.8,1643.4,57.0,1.24,4280,1701.7,1646.7,21.0 ,1.49,4303,788.0,788.0,-2.0,1.56,778.8,1016.8,1639.6,56.6,1.43,4298,1700.4,1642.7,21.4 ,1.70,4326,777.5,777.5,-2.0,1.78,781.9,1016.8,1639.0,56.6,1.63,4320,1699.2,1639.0,21.4 ,1.90,4347,778.2,778.2,-2.0,1.96,789.1,1016.8,1645.3,57.0,1.84,4339,1697.1,1640.3,21.4 ,2.09,4349,793.4,793.4,-2.0,2.15,790.7,1016.8,1653.9,44.5,2.02,4349,1696.4,1648.0,21.3 ,2.29,4337,756.6,756.6,-2.0,2.35,730.1,1016.8,1586.3,44.0,2.21,4309,1696.4,1650.7,22.5 ,2.48,4337,705.5,705.5,-2.0,2.54,706.5,1016.8,1506.1,44.5,2.42,4342,1661.9,1548.2,23.6 ,2.67,4338,694.6,694.6,-2.0,2.74,687.8,1016.8,1467.8,44.5,2.60,4336,1548.0,1493.5,21.5 ,2.89,4339,681.6,681.6,-2.0,2.96,677.0,1016.8,1439.9,45.1,2.82,4342,1530.8,1456.2,24.5 ,3.10,4334,677.6,677.6,-2.0,3.17,674.0,1016.8,1424.2,45.1,3.04,4339,1540.0,1433.5,25.7 ,3.33,4339,664.9,664.9,-2.0,3.39,668.3,1016.8,1409.8,45.1,3.24,4338,1539.4,1417.3,25.8 ,3.53,4342,673.4,673.4,-2.0,3.60,663.6,1016.8,1398.4,45.1,3.46,4337,1539.4,1405.6,26.0 ,3.74,4345,663.2,663.2,-2.0,3.83,665.5,1016.8,1392.6,45.1,3.67,4349,1539.2,1397.1,26.2 ,3.96,4342,660.4,660.4,-2.0,4.03,661.4,1016.8,1387.7,45.1,3.90,4347,1540.0,1389.8,26.6 ,4.15,4337,660.6,660.6,-2.0,4.21,650.8,1018.1,1385.0,45.1,4.09,4342,1540.5,1386.7,26.8 ,4.36,4338,655.0,655.0,-2.0,4.43,658.4,1016.8,1380.6,45.1,4.28,4339,1540.5,1382.6,27.3 ,4.56,4349,659.2,659.2,-2.0,4.62,649.9,1016.8,1375.2,45.1,4.49,4344,1540.2,1378.9,27.4 ,4.75,4352,646.8,646.8,-2.0,4.81,649.6,1016.8,1369.6,44.2,4.68,4351,1540.0,1372.8,27.8 ,4.95,4349,644.0,644.0,-2.0,5.01,640.7,1016.8,1360.7,42.7,4.89,4352,1533.6,1366.8,27.9 ,5.15,4343,636.0,636.0,-2.0,5.21,642.9,1016.8,1346.9,42.5,5.08,4344,1527.6,1356.0,27.7 ,5.35,4347,639.6,639.6,-2.0,5.44,620.2,1016.8,1329.4,41.0,5.28,4349,1497.4,1341.1,27.5 ,5.57,4347,627.0,627.0,-2.0,5.64,623.4,1016.8,1314.0,41.0,5.51,4342,1494.2,1325.1,29.2 ,5.76,4346,618.0,618.0,-2.0,5.82,618.5,1016.8,1302.3,41.2,5.70,4346,1480.9,1309.8,27.7 ,5.97,4344,621.3,621.3,-2.0,6.03,620.2,1016.8,1293.4,41.4,5.89,4349,1481.4,1298.9,29.7 ,6.15,4336,614.3,614.3,-2.0,6.21,617.4,1016.8,1290.6,41.4,6.09,4336,1484.6,1291.8,30.1 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,8.51,4330,614.9,614.9,-2.0,8.59,608.0,1016.8,1267.7,42.5,8.45,4326,1501.6,1268.6,33.6 ,8.72,4339,614.1,614.1,-2.0,8.79,617.1,1016.8,1267.2,42.5,8.65,4339,1501.0,1267.3,33.9 ,8.92,4334,612.5,612.5,-2.0,8.98,609.6,1016.8,1268.8,42.5,8.86,4337,1500.5,1267.5,34.2 ,9.13,4330,611.3,611.3,-2.0,9.20,611.8,1016.8,1270.7,42.5,9.05,4333,1500.0,1269.4,34.3 ,9.33,4329,608.9,608.9,-2.0,9.39,614.4,1016.8,1272.2,42.5,9.26,4329,1500.7,1271.4,34.7 ,9.51,4332,609.9,609.9,-2.0,9.58,612.4,1016.8,1273.0,42.5,9.45,4323,1500.9,1272.3,35.0 ,9.72,4337,609.0,609.0,-2.0,9.79,611.1,1016.8,1275.9,42.5,9.66,4337,1500.4,1273.8,35.1 ,9.92,4332,612.3,612.3,-2.0,9.98,612.3,1016.8,1279.7,42.5,9.86,4336,1500.4,1278.4,35.0 ,10.11,4332,617.2,617.2,-2.0,10.19,616.0,1016.8,1283.4,42.5,10.05,4332,1500.6,1280.6,35.5 ,10.31,4323,623.9,623.9,-2.0,10.38,623.5,1016.8,1285.9,42.5,10.25,4329,1500.9,1284.0,35.7 ,10.51,4329,613.5,613.5,-2.0,10.58,610.6,1016.8,1286.4,42.5,10.45,4321,1498.0,1286.4,35.5 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este turbina in paprametri?

Modificat 4 Decembrie, 2013 de jangabriel.drind

[Rune]

@Darin

 

stii este pacat sa pui un turbo nou nout si sa mergi in continuare cu un MAF si un EGR obosite...asta duce mai devreme sau mai tarziu din nou la blocare geometriei variabile respectiv distrugerea turboului, acu daca ma intrebi cat dureaza este greu de formulat un raspuns exact, cert este ca merge in acesta directie.

 

Parerea mea este urmatoarea, EGR ul cand incepe sa scape pe la gaurile de aerisire ulei, e gata, numai unul nou rezolva problema , daca citesti ce au incercat baietii ....dar nimic nnu a adus o rezolvare a problemei, singura chestie ar putea fi sa tragi 2 furtunase de la gaurile de aerisire in asa fel ca mizeria sa se duca in afara motorului.

 

Chiar daca vei suspenda EGR ul cu o tablita, tot vei mai avea acea pierdere de ulei, dar vei avea garantia ca este inchis.

 

Un Egr nou face cam 100 euro ceea  ce nu e chiar ieftin dar unul SH poate avea aceiasi problema.

 

@ jeangabriel,

 

e cam dificil sa interpretezi un log in acest mod, daca nu te descurci altfel cauta-ma in privat si iti dau o adresa de mail unde sa il trimiti.

 

Asa dupa ce am reusit sa descifrez pare ca e geometria blocata deoarece ciclul N75  se zbate intre 19-36%  ceea ce e cam putin

[darin]

Dacă în închid mai aman până pot lua altul(furtun am tras şi eu :)), pt că acum am nişte probleme în care s au dus mii de € şi se vor mai duce , legat de maf şi acesta e cu probleme ?, zilele următoare voi verifica furtunele de vacuum şi N 75 cum zice Florin.

[Rune]

Inainte de a te baga sub masina fa un BAsic Setings 011  si deja vezi ce e cu vacuumul , si daca nu iese bine atunci porneste lucrarea.

[jangabriel.drind]

nu pot sa atasez fisierul

l-am asezat in pagina dar nu stiu sa-l interpretez

cum sa procedez

Modificat 5 Decembrie, 2013 de jangabriel.drind

[darin]

incerc si un basic setings, dar dupa anulare teoretic ar trebui ca turbina sa se curete de depuneri .

[Rune]

stii ca teoria si practica sunt 2 lucruri diferite...

 

 

Unii spun ca daca suspenzi EGR opturand tubul dintre turbo si EGR, in timp v-a trece prin tubulatura, EGR si galerie numai aburii de ulei ce vin de la carterul motorului si eventual ce scapa turbo.

 

E deoarece calamina lipseste apoi, acei vapori de ulei pot duce la curatarea galeriei si a EGR ului am citit precum ca efectul este sesizabil dupa 6 luni......

 

Deci nu pot sa iti dau scris la mana ca geometria se va curata, dar iti pot spune ca incarcarea ei cu calamina se reduce mult dupa suspendarea EGR ului.

[dtm_fast]

Buna! rog pe cineva care ma poate ajuta cu o problema,am impresia ca masina are un consum cam mare si astazi am apucat de am facut 4 log-ri in mers,2 cu grupurile:2,10 si 11 si 2 cu grupurile:3,10 si 11,dar nu resusesc sa le deschid si citesc.sunt interesat daca este o cauza care poate influeanta consumul si o rezolvare.am sa atasez cele 4 log-uri si daca ma poate ajuta cineva raman recunoscator.

Multumesc si o seara buna !

[EEXCALADE]

O cauza care influenteaza consumul in peroada asta e temperatura scazuta.Mai ales daca mergi pe distante scurte.