ULEIURI

[cristobob]

eu tot 20W50 folosesc la motoarele mele si tot am probleme cu ele. oare din cauza uleiului?

[Alex_Bancos]

Eu i-am pus acum ca e iarna 5w40, si e ok, mai la vara o sa-i pun un 15-20w. Si sunt de acord cu Komissar, tre schimbat cat mai des daca nu ai filtru.

Modificat 16 Februarie, 2011 de Alex_Bancos

[costi005]

Schimbi cat mai des uleiul... e metoda batraneasca, de pe vremuri. Un ARAL 20W50(pt vara), este bun in orice conditii de functionare pe 10k de km. Sfatul lui Komisar e valabil pentru uleiurile la ..pet, gen Lubricerp, Petrotel,Lukoil, etc.

Pentru motoare predispuse uzurii rapide, recomand adaugarea unui flacon de aditiv LM cu oxid de Bor, la fiecare schimb.

P.S.- nu stiu de performantele lui Yacco Classic

[Komissar]

Repet ... BROASCA NU ARE FILTRU DE ULEI. Tragi concluziile pe care le vrei, de aici.

[TZepeSH]

Hihihi. Eu am pompa cu filtru. Si tot o sa il schimb la maxim 5000 dupa ce trec de rodaj.

[prepeleac]

Costi 005 tu vorbesti despre alte avioane, noi vorbim despre motoare de 30-40-50 ani, deci alta tehnologie

Cristobob sigur de acolo

Bogdanawo 20W/.... e prea gros si vara, iarna e moarte motorului.

[bogdanawo]

Păi cartea ce ulei recomandă? Eu, personal, n-am apucat să caut şi să citesc, dar, nu mai ştiu cine mi-a zis că 20 ar fi recomandat de manual.Ideea este că eu acum am totul nou

[prepeleac]

cartea da 15w40, mai bun decat asta ar fi 15w/50 la un motor mai uzat, mai bun 10w40 la un motor BUN si la unu "nou" 5w/50 full sintetic

oricare ar fi dintre astea NU BAGATI ADITIV. Acuma fiecare face cum vrea, cum crede si cum il duce capu si cum e invatat de unu de altu.

si sunt convins ca inca mai sunt unii cu ulei romanesc de 7 lei/litru 20w/40, dati-l afara si bagati un 15w/40 si sa vedeti cum o sa meraga motorasu mai bine :icon_thumright:

[bogdanawo]

Ia ui', bre, cum am găsit io:

[bogdanawo]

Vis-a-vis de reply-ul de mai sus al userului Costi, caruia ii place sa se citeasca scriind, (ca suntem pe forum :) ) :

Nu faceti prostii de genul "am ulei bun il schimb rar" . La motorul de broasca, luand in considerare faptul CA NU ARE FILTRU DE ULEI + conditiile de condus din Romania, faptul ca majoritatea broscarilor nu au motoare "zeiss", dar in acelasi timp tin la aceste masini, un schimb de ulei ar trebui sa se faca LA CEL MULT 3000km. Si mai devreme daca e posibil. Ba chiar as indrazni sa zic ca e mai putin important ca uleiul sa fie "de marca" (scumpa) decat a il schimba DES.

Si da... ca regula generala, daca bugetul si logistica o permite, e bun un ulei multigrad, de genul 5W 50 .

Ia ui' ce spune cartea:

[bogdan_bus]

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.

Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.

Note that the SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (eg 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.

[xellex]

Dupa ce am tot discutat cu mai multa lume in ultima vreme despre uleiuri, si dupa ce am tot citit, se pare ca e o foarte mare harababura in privinta asta, si fiecare are alta parere, dar nimeni nu are rabdarea sa inteleaga definitiv ce inseamna de fapt codificarea asta a uleiurilor. Totusi, fiecare crede ca stie ce e mai bine...

Tot aud/citesc povesti dinastea gen "eu folosesc uleiul X de nu stiu cand si merge super!" sau "nu il papa deloc" sau "pe celalalt il consuma la greu". Astea supt povesti de adormit copiii... Asta dovedeste doar cat de durabile sunt si cat de mult suporta motoarele asta de broscuta. Dupa cum spunea cineva, la un moment dat a mers si cu ulei de floarea soarelui neavand altceva, si tot a mers.

Este total irelevant legat de ce ulei ar trebui de fapt sa fie folosit in motorul aircooled de broasca, si as vrea sa vad mai multe argumente decat pareri...

Eu nu sunt in masura sa aduc argumente, dar pentru o mai buna intelegere a codificarii SAE, pun urmatorul text:

Oil viscosity refers to how easily oil pours at a specified temperature. Thinner oils have a water-like consistency and pour more easily at low temperatures than heavier, thicker oils that have a more honey-like consistency. Thin is good for easier cold weather starting and reducing friction, while thick is better for maintaining film strength and oil pressure at high temperatures and loads.

The viscosity rating of a motor oil is determined in a laboratory by a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) test procedure. The viscosity of the oil is measured and given a number, which some people also refer to as the "weight" (thickness) of the oil. The lower the viscosity rating or weight, the thinner the oil. The higher the viscosity rating, the thicker the oil.

MOTOR OIL VISCOSITY RATINGS

Viscosity ratings for commonly used motor oils typically range from 0 up to 50. With multi-viscosity oils, a "W" after the number stands for "Winter" grade oil. The numeric value of the first number (example 5W-20) is a measure of the pour point of the oil expressed in degrees Celsius. The rating is determined in a lab using a cold crank simulator and mini-rotary viscometer test. The oil weight is its viscosity index at 100 degrees C (the boiling point of water).

Low viscosity motor oils that pour easily at low temperatures typically have a "0W", "5W" or "10W" rating. There are also "15W" and "20W" grade multi-weight motor oils.

Higher viscosity motor oils that are thicker and better suited for high temperature operation. These may be multi-grade oils or single weight oils such as SAE 30, 40 or 50.

Single weight oils are no longer used in late model automotive engines, but may be required for use in some vintage and antique engines. Straight SAE 30 oil is often specified for small air-cooled engines in lawnmowers, garden tractors, portable generators and gas-powered chain saws.

MULTI-VISCOSITY MOTOR OILS

Most modern motor oils are formulated from various grades of oil so the oil will have the best characteristics of both thick and thin viscosity oils. Multi-viscosity oils flow well at low temperature for easier starting yet retain enough thickness and film strength at high temperature to provide adequate film strength and lubrication.

A thin oil such as a straight SAE 10W oil designed for cold weather use would probably not provide adequate lubrication for hot weather, high speed driving. Likewise, a thicker high temperature oil such as SAE 30 or 40 would probably become so stiff at sub-zero temperatures the engine might not crank fast enough to start.

Multi-viscosity grade oils have a wide viscosity range which is indicated by a two-number rating. Popular multi-viscosity grades today include 0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50. The first number with the "W" refers to the oil's cold temperature viscosity rating, while the second number refers to the oil's high temperature viscosity rating.

Note: Motor oils that have a wider range viscosity rating such a 5W-30, 5W-40 and 0W-40 are blended with more base stocks and additives. Because of this, it may be harder for a wider range oil to remain in grade as the miles accumulate (which is why GM does NOT recommend using 10W-40 motor oil. They say it breaks down too quickly and does not say in grade as long as 10W-30 or 5W-30. Also, an oil with a lower winter rating like 0W-20 or 5W-20 will contain a higher percentage of thinner base stock oil (which is typically a synthetic oil). This requires more viscosity improver additive to achieve a the same high temperature rating as a 10W-30, 10W-40 or straight 30 or 40 weight oil.

Most vehicle manufacturers today specify 5W-20 or 5W-30 for newer vehicles for year-round driving. Some European car makes also specify 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40 or 5W-40 for their vehicles. Always refer to the vehicle owners manual for specific oil viscosity recommendations, or markings on the oil filler cap or dipstick.

As a rule, overhead cam (OHC) engines typically require thinner oils such as 5W-30 or 5W-20 to speed lubrication of the overhead cam(s) and valve-train when the engine is first started. Pushrod engines, by comparison, typically specify 5W-30, 10W-30 or 10W-40.

As mileage adds up and internal engine wear increases bearing clearances, it may be wise to switch to a slightly higher viscosity rating to prolong engine life, reduce noise and oil consumption. For example, if an engine originally factory-filled with 5W-30 now has 90,000 miles on it, switching to a 10W-30 oil may provide better lubrication and protection. The thicker oil will maintain the strength of the oil film in the bearings better so the engine will have more oil pressure. This will also reduce engine noise and reduced bearing fatigue (which can lead to bearing failure in high mileage engines).

For sustained high temperature, high load operation, an even heavier oil may be used in some situations. Some racing engines use 20W-50, but this would only be recommended for an engine with increased bearing clearances. Increasing the viscosity of the oil also increases drag and friction, which can sap horsepower from the crankshaft. That's why 20W-50 racing oil would not be the best choice for everyday driving or cold weather operation for most vehicles. The latest trend in racing is to run tighter bearing clearances and use thinner oils such as 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20 or 5W-30 to reduce friction and drag.

De luat in considerare ca:

- motoarele noastre merg mai incinse decat cele ale masinilor racite pe apa din zilele noastre.

- motoarele noastre de multe ori au niste uzuri care necesita o pelicula mai groasa de ulei.

- motoarele noastre de cele mai multe ori nu au filtre de ulei.

- motoarele noastre in multe din cazuri merg prea putin in perioada de iarna.

- motoarele noastre nu au distributia pe lant/curea etc, si apar destul de multe zone cu forte foarte puternice de frecare/apasare etc.

- motoarele noastre nu au catalizatoare, ceea ce ne permite folosirea unor uleiuri cu continut mai mare de zinc si fosfor, care protejeaza impotriva uzurii premature.

Incep sa inteleg de ce pe forumurile de afara s-a ajuns la un consens de multa vreme si se recomanda cu inversunare folosirea uleiurilor de curse 20W-50 cu precadere Brad Penn Racing Green Oil.

De ce de curse? Pentru ca nu e supus regulilor de mediu/ protectie a catalizatorului si inca mai are aditivii necesari pentru protectia zonelor cu frecari intense. Din foarte multe puncte de vedere motoarele de broasca/bus sunt similare motoarelor de curse sau celor de motocicleta. Mai ales motociclete cu motoare boxer sau in V, racite cu aer.

De ce 20W-50? Pentru tot ce scrie mai sus.

De ce Brad Penn? Pentru ca multimea de pe Samba/Shoptalk Etc este formata din americani. Si pentru ca are cel mai mare continut de zinc si fosfor din toate. Dar cu putine sapaturi, avem si noi echivalent in Europa!

Iar apropos de aditivi.... Cred ca problema este privita gresit din start! Am un ulei pe care l-am ales special ca si vascozitate, pentru ca sa-mi tina o anumita pelicula/presiune in motor. Pentru ce as avea nevoie apoi de un aditiv care sa faca acelasi lucu? Eu zic ca aditivul ar trebui sa contina substantele necesare protectiei mai bune a motorului, respectiv coeficientul ZDDP (zinc si fosfor).

Mai zic inca o data: haideti sa lasam deoparte balacarelile specifice forumului, haideti sa lasam deoparte parerile personale nefondate, si sa aducem argumente atunci cand le avem. Aici e sectiunea de tehnic, nu e nici de masina mea, si nici de cafenea. Si haideti sa deschidem ochii!!!!!

[jan]

Haideti sa haidem.

[KRAKEN]

..suptscriu.. :blah_:

..eu pun semisintetic de lucoil, la mot. de 2000... ;) si merge.

...haideti.. :blah_:

[bogdan]

Ce ulei de cutie sa folosesc? Acum am unul ( din cate imi aduc aminte romanesc ) si la rece intra mai greu in viteza ( banuiesc ca-i prea gros ).

[bogdanawo]

T90 parcă recomandă manualul.

[bogdan]

Hmmmm, cartea zice cam asa: API GL-5, SAE 90, VW-TL-754 . De unde gasesc eu d'asta? A?

[TZepeSH]

SAE 90 e codul cheie. Adica ulei de transmisie.

[bogdan]

API GL-5, SAE 90 sunt acelasi lucru in doua "limbi" diferite. T90 e API GL-4 din cate am vazut :( .

[Komissar]

Sa mai zic ca eu am gasit in typ3 in C.V. ulei de transformator ? :D

[bogdan]

De pus poti sa pui si Floriol sau daca vrei sa faci economie totala poti sa nu mai pui nimic. Dar nu despre asta era vorba ....

[KRAKEN]

..eu am primit kado :icon_thumright: trei litri de ulei lucoi :blah_: , da'..e expirat de vreo... :blah_: 6 ani???mai o fi bun :blink: ???e sigilat... :icon_thumright:

[bogdan]

Daca e sigilat si nu e ranced eu zic ca poti sa-l folosesti. :blink:

[Kafer_CJ]

si eu am pus Mobil 20W50... pana acum ( 100 si ceva de km) curat ca lacrima:) fara figuri la beculetzul de ulei....

[Komissar]

Pe timp de iarna omori motorul cu asa ceva ... ii scurtezi viata dramatic. Pune 10W40, sa zicem, sau chiar mai subtire.

Ce o sa scriu mai jos probabil ca va enerva multa lume, dar asta e ceea ce am folosit anul asta, incepand cu sfarsitul primaverii 2011:

Ulei 5W30 sintetic - atat pe timp de vara ( masina a facut in vara multe mii de km, atat in oras cat si drumuri lungi printre care si un Transfagarasan) si continui sa merg cu ea si acum iarna.

Motorul este un 1200 in stare f buna, becul de ulei nu s-a aprins/palpait niciodata ( dar functioneza, asta e sigur :D ) .

Am facut 4 schimburi de ulei de cand am inceput sa pun 5W30.

Ce am observat atunci, cand am facut trecerea de la 10W-40 (parca, ) la 5W30 - motorul merge mai rotund si parca se incinge o idee mai putin.

Pe timp de iarna e inutil sa reiau avantajele uleiului mai subtire.

Modificat 30 Decembrie, 2011 de Komissar