Antigel - discutii cu si despre + schimbarea acestuia

[cristianionut]

In toate solutiile de racire .... de gen antigel exista substante care au rolul de lubrifiere. ....

sau ne testezi ne ... constintele?

te-ai prins era o gluma.....

cit priveste tipul de substante din antigel am auzit de curind o discutie la baieti de cartier: pune calgon in instalatia de racire ca sa nu se depuna calcar pe instalatie..... :lol:

[I_am_Stealth]

Care era gluma? In afara de etilen sau propilen glicol, se adauga alti aditivi cu proprietati de lubrefiere in antigel?? Nu vad rostul.

Spuneti-mi unul.

[redlife]

Salut, am cautat pe forum dar nu am gasit nicaieri raspunsul la intrebarea mea.

Deci poate sa imi zica cineva cati litri de lichid de racire intra in motorul 1.9 TDI ALH si cam pe unde este orificiul de golire ca sa pot scurge lichidul vechi?

[C o s m i n]

6 litri.

Date tehnice

VOLKSWAGEN GOLF IV 1.9 TDI

Capacities and specifications

Engine oil with filter

4,30 Litres

Engine oil specification

VW 506 01/507 00

Longlife VW 506 01/507 00

Manual gearbox

5 gear 02K 1,90 Litres

5 gear 02J 2,00 Litres

6 gear 02M 2,30 Litres

Transmission oil specification

5 gear 02K G 50

5 gear 02J G 50

6 gear 02M G 51

Automatic gearbox

4 gear 01M, New filling 5,30 Litres

5 gear 09A, New filling 7,00 Litres

Automatic gearbox oil specification

4 gear 01M G 052162

5 gear 09A G 052990

Front axle differential

with automatic gearbox 4 gear 01M 0,75 Litres

Front axle oil specification

G 052 145

Power steering

0,80 Litres

Power steering oil specification

G 002 000

Cooling fluid

6,00 Litres

Cooling fluid specification

G12

Brake fluid when changing

1,25 Litres

Brake fluid specification

DOT 4

Air conditioner refrigerant

750 - 800 Gram

Refrigerant specification

R 134a

Tank capacity

55 Litres

[redlife]

merci mult pentru date :)

[wiqed]

Am facut amestecul de antigel cu apa acum cateva luni. E vreo problema daca vreau sa completez acum cu acel amestec? Ma gandesc ca si in motor e acelasi lichid. Isi pierde din proprietati sau ceva de genul daca sta in sticla?

Multumesc!

[anorganix]

Poate o explicatie un pic mai in amanunt va ajuta.

O.K., now my opinion about this G11 to G12 changeover.

In order to understand this better, I'll tell you what I know about coolant.

Buy only high quality antifreeze-cheap brands can be straight ethylene glycol minus important corrosion inhibitors and lubricants.

ALWAYS mix 50/50 with water(preferably distilled) or follow ratio recommend for your climate.

Never top off coolant tank with straight coolant-preferrably small amount of distilled water or your 50/50 mixture.

Use common sense, large amount missing means that if you refill, you are going to throw off the glycol to water ratio, and it is very important.

Antifreeze should never exceed 65%. Exceeding 85% will cause the silicates to drop out of suspension and goo up to clog the

radiator and reduce heat transfer.

VW recommends the water and compressed air treatment to upgrade to G12 because up to a third of the coolant is still trapped in the heater core and the engine after you pull a hose or the drain cock.

This flush ensures that you are removing all accumulated rust, scale,silicate buildup and old coolant as best as possible.

By the way, the blue and red coolant will foam up and turn brown in your expansion tank if you mix them or don't get all the G11 out.

The degree of corrosion that takes place in your VW depends upon the type of minerals and alloys in the engine and radiator, and the acidity or alkalinity of the coolant.

So long as your coolant remains alkaline, corrosion will be held to a minimum.

Conversely, acidic coolant hastens the corrosion process that occurs between the cast iron and the aluminum present in the engine and radiator.

The corrosion inhibiting chemicals that are added to you coolant is what keeps the alkalinity on the high side of the Ph scale. That's why adding aftermarket wetters and boosters is not smart because you are altering the already unknown alkalinity of your coolant(no matter how new, it varies depending on mix ratio, mineral content, additive content)

More important, this alkalinity ratio doesn't have to be bigger to be better-it just needs staying power.

This is measured as alkalinity reserve(how long your coolant can resist corrosion)

The enemies of your coolant are heat, dissolved oxygen and minerals which react with the metal surfaces in your engine depleting the capacity of the coolant to resist becoming acidic.

Therefore, changing the coolant annually or at least bi-annually guarantees that you never exceed the coolants ability

to resist corrosion.

European car makers like VW specify coolant additives lacking in phosphates and including borates and low silicates

because their water is harder and it reacts with phosphates to create calcium and magnesium deposits.

The Japanese disagree and specify high in phosphates and low in borates and silicates because they fear lack of

maintenance will cause borate corrosion.

This is the reason you see the little "phosphate free coolant " only from vw under the expansion tank cap-or it will void mf's warranty.

It seems that in my opinion, the original G11 coolant must have been a poor acidic retardant-either from the reaction to the water installed from the factory and/or an additive package that was insufficient to go more than a couple of years on North

American water.

Mixing the two coolants causes problems because you get saturation of the silicates and gelling inside the engine, thus the

specific ritual flush with water and compressed air.

I firmly believe that no matter what proportion VW used for an additives package with the G12 coolant, it too should be flushed out and refilled every year or two.

Considering that it isn't that much work and it beats playing with litmus paper and rebuilding your cylinder head.

By the way, the corrosion we usually see on VR6s is surface etching that rubs away to leave pits-almost always around any flange that attaches to the head, or on the water jack inlets comprising the head gasket.

They're usually good to go because they are far enough away from critical sealing areas, but we do replace heads when they are questionable.

I really doubt that the new metal gasket is the reason for the G12.

There is actually no bare metal on the gasket and all the passages have sealer from the factory around them.

I think the reason was simply that G11 didn't provide long enough reserve capacity and coupled with poor maintenance,

they were getting too many warranty problems.

Pe undeva pe net, VWvortex parca era site-ul.

Sal'tare! :biggrin:

[tudormara]

Va rog mult luminati-ma urgent unde este localizat furtunul acela de la de la pasul 5 ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? stau cu masina in garaj si nu il gasesc. Am desfacut robinetul de la radiator jos, dar pasul 5 ma exaspereaza. Am cumparat antigel proaspat G12 si nu l-as amesteca cu cel vechi, care nu era cu aceeasi specificatie, ci unul ordinar.

Multumesc de interes.

Extragerea lichidului de racire

1. Se demonteaza capacul de protectie a motorului

2. Se scoate capacul vasului de expansiune

3. Se scoate scutul

4. Se desface robinetul din partea inferioara a radiatorului

5. Daca se doreste golirea volumului de lichid din motor, se scoate furtunul sistemului de racire de pe filtrul de ulei

Concentratia lichidului de racire

-24*C -> 40% = 2.4 L G12 + 3.6 L apa

-35*C -> 50% = 3.0 L G12 + 3.0 L apa

O concentratie peste 60% diminueaza proprietatile anti-inghet ale lichidului de racire.

Umplerea sistemului de racire

1. Se pune la loc furtunul de la pct 5 si se insurubeaza robinetul de la pct 4

2. Se umple pana la marcajul "MAX" de pe vasul de expansiune

3. Se pune la loc capacul vasului de expansiune

4. Se porneste motorul si se lasa sa mearga pana cand porneste ventilatorul. In acest moment se verifica nivelul lichidului de racire, care trebuie sa fie nivelul trebuie sa fie pana la marcajul "MAX" cand motorul este la temperatura de regim. Cand motorul este rece, nivelul trebuie sa fie intre marcajele "MIN" si "MAX".

Se foloseste numai antigel G12 rosu. Pentru completare, se poate folosi numai antigel G12 violet, conform cu norma TL VW 774 F.

Modificat 20 Septembrie, 2008 de tudormara

[GeoB]

Salutari. Am inteles ca o concentratie de 50-50 % este cea mai buna.

Sa inteleg ca apa este distilata nu orice fel de apa ? :)

[Marius]

Corect! Se foloseste apa distilata.

[C o s m i n]

EXACT. :)

Daca pui apa normala va rugini, si n-ai facut nimic.

[danbv]

Pentru golf v se pune tot G12?

[Al Bundy]

Da.

[joky]

si daca se foloseste doar antigel fara a fi diluat exista ceva riscuri?

eu de cand am masina tot antigel fara apa am pus

[Al Bundy]

Esti sigur ca era antigel concentrat? Pentru completare nu e o problema, dar sa folosesti in intreaga instalatie atunci e.

Ca antigelul concentrat nu raceste cum trebuie, deci se va duce garnitura de chiulasa si ingheata la vreo minus 5-8 grade.

Modificat 13 Octombrie, 2008 de al bundy

[joky]

am schimbat garnitura acum 2 ani

ce au pus cei din service e in masina

nu mi-au spus daca e concentrat sau diluat

de atunci am mai completat cam 100gr cu ce am cumparat din magazin fara sa il diluez

de racit raceste bine iar iernile trecute nu am avut probleme

in consecinta doar daca ii aflu concentratia imi dau seama cum e nu?

[Al Bundy]

Da, din cand in cand trebuie masurata temperatura de inghet (aka concentratia).

[GeoB]

Salut baieti. Am gasit antigel G12 la o firma de la mine de oras destul de buna care are cam de toate si aduce la comanda.

Aveau baietii Antigel G012 si mai scria in continuare inca un cod din 4-5 cifre si litere. In rest era un bidonas alb de 1,5 litri si mai aveau si la 1 litru care costa 20 RON.

Mi-au zis ca lichidul este rosu si cand se dilueaza se face roz, ceva de genul. In rest scria mare pe el MADE IN GERMANY si numai in limba germana. Nimic in engleza. Mai avea chenar cu limba daneza sau olandeza. Va dati seama ca nu am inteles nimic.

Am inteles ca instalatia are 7 litri in total. Deci 3.5 litri antigel + 3.5 litri apa distilata.

Deci sunt nevoit sa cumpar 4 litri (80 RON). Specific: Mi-au zis ca este lichidul rosu si scrie pe bidonas G012 (impreunat) :Driver:

Merita? Astept un raspuns. Va multumesc :D

Mi-au zis ca e foarte bun asta rosu, si mai aveau si albastru care cica este numai pentru BMW :D

Modificat 14 Octombrie, 2008 de GeoB

[catalin_u]

Poate o explicatie un pic mai in amanunt va ajuta.

Antifreeze should never exceed 65%. Exceeding 85% will cause the silicates to drop out of suspension and goo up to clog the

radiator and reduce heat transfer.

VW recommends the water and compressed air treatment to upgrade to G12 because up to a third of the coolant is still trapped in the heater core and the engine after you pull a hose or the drain cock.

Pe undeva pe net, VWvortex parca era site-ul.

Sal'tare! :)

si daca se foloseste doar antigel fara a fi diluat exista ceva riscuri?

eu de cand am masina tot antigel fara apa am pus

---> Antigelul nu trebuie sa depaseasca 65%. Depasirea procentului de 85% va determina silicatii sa "cada"(iasa) din suspensie (silicatii sunt niste particule care sunt in suspensie, adica se afla in masa lichidului si nu se depun pe pereti) si sa se depuna pe peretii instalatiei - in acest caz si pe radiator, care e componenta ce face transferul de caldura, imbacsindu-l si reducandu-i eficienta.

VW recomanda ca la schimbarea antigelului (in cazul expus, de la G11 la G12), instalatia sa fie golita de tot lichidul ramas folosind apa si aer comprimat, pentru ca in radiator si motor va mai ramane lichid si dupa ce furtunele au fost desfacute pentru golirea instalatiei.

Adaugare: cred ca daca i-as spune asta unui mecanic de la vreun maaaare service mi-ar rade in fata (stie el mai bine - adica habar n-are de "detalii d-astea")

La cerere, traduceri, interpretari, :blah: pentru teste functionez si cu bere :ceuameni:

Revenind on, degeaba pune Cosmin sau altcineva informatii utile daca unii nici nu se obosesc sa citeasca, se pare ca e mai simplu sa intrebi din nou.

Modificat 14 Octombrie, 2008 de catalin_u

[WNS]

Am inteles ca instalatia are 7 litri in total.

GeoB ce cod are motorul tau ?

La unele motoare 1.4 16v capacitatea instalatiei de racire este de 5 litri, iar antigelul trebuie sa fie G12 Plus.

Spune ce cod de motor ai si vei primi un raspuns sigur si la obiect. :ceuameni:

Numai bine.

[GeoB]

Sal WNS :vwrullz:

Nujt la ce cod te referi, dar iti dau tipul :P

TIP: 1J / SCAXPX01 / GOLF

Cred ca la AXP te referi :) - Date luate din CIV :)

[wiqed]

Eu am motor AZD. Are ceva daca am pus G12 Plus?

Merci!

[Marius]

GeoB cel mai usor, tipul motorului il gasesti in Certificatul de inmatriculare la rubrica nr. 17 Motorul - in casuta Tipul si este o combinatie de 3 litere (la golf 4).

[GeoB]

De "tip" stiam si eu, dar de cod, nu :) Cod putea sa insemne si seria de pe motor din 5-6 cifre, care o am trecuta si pe aia in CIV :)

Deci am tip: AXP :D

[ByG]

astept si eu un raspuns pentru un Golf 4 1.4 16V 2003 BCA serie

vine iarna si as vrea sa schimb antigelul tot. nu cred ca e nevoie dar o sa il schimb pentru linistea mea personala ;)

Multumesc